Referring back to the latest fit of Aravosisism, “I’m Not an LGBT American,” lets take a look at some more of the comments.
Where shall we begin?
How about….
Transgendered rights faces a tougher battle in congress and you have to latch on to another group so you can even have a change.
Then you have the audacity to cry foul when those of us being slowed down by your attachment call you out. Attack me personally all you want but what I say is true.
Well, what ‘AnnoyedAtT’ says is, like most of the sounds one hears in the Aravosisism echo chamber, devoid of context (read: on the outside of reality and not even making any attempt to look in.)
I won’t bother mentioning a certain event that occurred at a certain NYC bar in 1969. Too many of the Aravosisists have mainlined too much gay-white-male-authored history to ever be willing to accept the reality that trans people played at least some role in it; and, sadly, decades of economic deprivation (often at the hands of gays) has led many trans people to simply utter the name of the event and expect such invocations to undo the decades of gay-manufactured and gay-exacerbated transphobia and trans-misogyny.
I will, of course, mention the reality that in 1969 transsexuals were a good bit ahead of homosexuals on the social acceptability scale – and light-years ahead of homosexuals on the legal acceptance scale.
I will then ask…
What happened?
Who spent the next four decades drumming transsexuals out of the gay rights movement and demonizing trans issues into the legal oblivion upon which you rely to justify consecrating that screwing-over of all trans people via a federal statute that would, whether anyone likes how I characterize the Frankrainvosisistic ENDA or not, give gays and lesbians the right to discriminate against trans people?
Hint: It wasn’t trans people.
Oh…
You don’t believe that ‘AnnoyedAtT’ is reality-deprived? Try this subsequent belch:
ENDA would be law right now and I would have additional protections as we speak but we slowed down for that T on the end.
Greed, much?
Now, ‘joshemerson’ was a bit less vitriolic, but no less devoid of reality:
I have never understood why transgendered people are for some reason grouped with gay people. What exactly is the connection there? Honestly, I’d like someone to explain that, because I just don’t get it. Being attracted to the same gender and physically changing your own gender are two completely different things. Just because I’m gay doesn’t mean I somehow should have to understand transgendered people any more than straight people do.
I’m not saying I don’t support transgendered rights, I’ve just never understood why the T is grouped with the rest.
Perhaps josh should ask the people who do indeed make no substantive distinction between post-op transsexual women and gay men.
You know…
Our common enemies? The Robert Knights? The J. Michael Baileys? Muggers and killers who don’t make the subtle distinctions that law enforcement officers and courts will make where gay-only laws are in play?
The source for that item, BTW, is the Oct. 22, 1998 edition of WI Light. At that time, Wisconsin’s gay rights laws had been gay-only for sixteen years.
Any guesses as to how much second-increment progressin’ has been done in Wisconsin in the 11 years and nine months since?
Any clues now as to how little trans people trust gay people to give a second thought (or even a first, if you can be honest with yourself) about the back end of the ‘trans inclusion incremental progress’ lie?
If you think the word “lie” tips my hand, then you’d be right – and your pimping of the incremental progress lie is as wrong as its always been. Just in the past few days we’ve seen The John tip his hand to show that what he really thinks of ‘incremental progress’ is what trans people always knew he thought of it: it can’t possibly apply to anything that non-trans gay men and lesbians want, even if politicians and/or certain well-connected-and-paid professional gays say that some ‘incremental’ step less than what non-trans gay men and lesbians want is do-able.
‘dcinsider’ doubles down on the mind-numbing ahistoricicity:
No one is saying that gender identity has no place at the table.
For argument’s sake, I’ll accept that statement as accurate based solely on the present tense the verbs.
What about in years past? You know – when the DC Dick-Sucking Dancing Drunk Millionaires Club (sometimes known as HRC) made damn sure that trans people and trans issues not only had no place at the table but weren’t to be spoken of in polite, er…, political company?
The history you’re refusing to acknowledge, dc? You’re wrapping it around your neck.
However, gays and lesbians should not be required to surrender an opportunity for advancement because a small percentage of folks feel left out.
Find me one architect of the gay-marriage-is-ultimately-the-only-thing-that-matters strategy who, prior to provoking Congress and almost every state legislature to pass DOMA laws and/or constitutional amendments, not only actually seriously considered what effect such laws/amendments would have on the existing sex status and marital rights of transsexuals but actually made a serious effort to ascertain how transsexuals felt about how the push for gay marriage by many of the very people who were then actively excluding all trans people from employment discrimination bills might jeopardize the existing sex status and marital rights of transsexuals.
If your demands are standing in the way of my advancement that is not me being selfish, its the person or group that demands that I sacrifice my rights for them that is being selfish.
When the amount of nebulous ‘opportunity’ that you ‘surrender’ to secure trans-inclusion in ENDA equals even one millionth of one percent of the concrete losses suffered by transsexuals who, upon attempting to do the heterosexual marrying that Aravosisists decry them for daring to do, have been judicially converted into gay men by the wave of anti-gay-marriage laws (with anti-transsexual language judicially legislated onto them) provoked by Gay, Inc., then you can complain.
Aren’t transgendered folks being homophobic by demanding that we not move our agenda forward unless they are included? If the reverse is transphobic, why are trans folks being homophobic?
I’d respond to this specifically, but I’m laughing too hard.
You see how useless it is to throw these terms around?
Or terms like ‘incrmental progress’ and ‘half a loaf’?
Let’s get on board with a very simple reality.
[Now channeling Jim Mora talking about playoffs] Reality? Reality? [Now actually back to actual reality] Refer to my comment above about laughing too hard.
Congress can barely comprehend extending protectiosn to gays and lesbians. They are simply not ready for transgender, transsexual, or other sexual minority issues right now.
Now, refer back to my reference to a history – a real history – of the DC Dick-Sucking Dancing Drunk Millionaires Club actively impeding the very ‘education’ that they and their employees were fraudulently claiming to have been doing on trans issues.
Perhaps that is because gays and lesbians have been out fighting for forty years, and the trans community showed up at the party very recently?
Not only refer back to my comment about laughing, but also take note that my two four-year-old pugs who, though incredibly cute, do not posssess the educational background that I do but who have peered over my shoulder at my computer monitor enough while I’ve written law review articles on the topic to know that that is the most laughable claim by ‘dc’ yet. (Ever heard a pug laugh? Ever heard two pugs laugh at the same time? Its funny in its own right – but, in all seriousness, knowing that my two loveable-yet-goofy dogs clearly have more sense than someone who claims to be a ‘dcinsider’ about LGB(T) issues is pretty sad.)
The trans community has a hell of a lot more education it needs to do before it can demand equal footing with gays and lesbians at the political negotiating table. That doesn’t mean they should not be there, but the expectations that I, as a gay man, should surrender every step of progress for the past 20 years to drag along some newcomers to the party is simply selfish, and not on my part
Enough.
You owe US for the damage you’ve already done to US.
Period.
If the worst thing that happens to you is waiting two – or twenty more years for ENDA (which, even if a legitimate version of it becomes law, will only be a down payment on what is owed), then you and all similar gay greedmeisters should consider yourselves to be the most fortunate fags in fairyland.
Get a clue – and get out your political checkbooks.

Let the congregation say Amen!
If gay men were being held back and were so much more accepted by straight people than everyone else – why hasn’t ENDA passed when it didn’t include gender identity.
Why didn’t it pass just two years ago when we were assured it would if only trans people were removed? I know it serves some deep seated needs to deny that you’re not as valued by society by pushing that stigma on to others and blaming them for the bigotry that’s harbored against both groups……but at some point don’t you need to admit that enda never was held back from passing by those who weren’t in the bill; but by hatred of those who were?
And admit that when it passes (fingers crossed for sometime during this admin), after all those tries keeping trans people out, only the inclusive version will have passed? Not the “more accepted” gay only bill?
Just like hate crimes – none of those gay only bills passed on the federal level. None. Ever. So – if there’s a lesson to be learned – maybe it’s not the one they’re selling.
[…] drift for a bit over into The Land of The John, specifically the comments to his neo-re-write of LGBT history. Of course, don’t stop […]
And up here in Canada, the NDP is trying ever so hard to correct the disaster it engaged in 8 years ago with bill C-250 which made sure that saying homosexuality was a disease could put you in jail, and saying transsexuality was a disease would get you a job with Ontario Health.