Another White Devil (Or, Well That Just About Sums it Up for Alice Dreger)

H/T Lynn Conway.

As part of her news blurb about Joe Fudgepacker’s paper not being satisfied with just his own transphobia or the transphobia apologism of Dominic Holden (as scrivener for Laurelurleen Ramseyerogovitch) but now deciding to import the sugar-coated exterminationism of Alice Dreger, Lynn noted:

Raised by anti-abortionist Catholic zealots, Alice Dreger is a part-time faculty member in the Jesuit-founded Medical Humanities and Bioethics Program at Northwestern University. Her mantra is “Why not change minds instead of bodies”, thus it should come as no surprise that she is rabidly opposed to gender transitions.

A de facto acolyte of Joe the Rat?

Could it be?

When I was growing up, I sometimes spent Saturdays with my family on anti-abortion picket lines. My parents were Right-to-Life activists, and my mother was a Feminist for Life.

Raised by womb-controllers who co-opted words such as “feminist” and “life,” eh?  That would kinda explain how she justifies what Michael Bailey has done, no?  After all, he claims not to be transphobic (not to mention claiming that The Man Who Would be Queen is science and is not fraud.)

It all depends on what your own personal lexicon says the definition of the word “is” is.

Ditto for “not,” I suppose.

Double ditto for “science.”

My sister is now a conservative Roman Catholic nun and a physician….


Didn’t Dreger claim to be on Galileo’s team?


I heard a young Women’s Studies student next to me say to her friend, “This Dreger woman is terrible!” I whispered to her, “Um, I’m that Dreger woman, and I don’t recognize the person they are describing.”

WWL(eo XIII)D?  Not look in the mirror apparently.

I worked for five years as a mortgage broker….

In 2011, I think that’s actually the most damning admission of all – but, I digress.


Don’t believe the existence of the neo-Raymond quote?

Answer: Because you have but one body over which you have any right whatsoever to exercise control over not changing something/anything – namely, your own.  You start fucking with other people’s right to exercise control over their bodies (be it direct – such as the Joe Fudgepacker paper-consecrated hit piece against trans youth – or indirectly – by cranking out a piece of intellectual fraud to defend a proven anti-transsexual fraud), and you have no right to act surprised when they fuck back…

but, of course, acting surprised (topped by the cherry of Oscar-worthy performances as victim) is what bullies always do – especially when they are better-funded than those who they bully.


9 Responses to Another White Devil (Or, Well That Just About Sums it Up for Alice Dreger)

  1. ValerieKeefe says:

    Yeah, Wikipedia didn’t mention any of this, not surprisingly… they do seem to assume that facts aren’t relevant to the conventional wisdom.

  2. Kathleen says:

    Some friends of mine were observing transsexuals on the exotic Ilse of Long – it was quite normal for transsexuals in that culture to have agency regarding their own bodies. Many, but certainly not all in that culture affirmed their rights to self determination.

    As a native of that Island – I can confirm their observations. It’s a shame Alice has to travel so far from her own culture to find examples to justify disenfranchising a minority in her own culture – and really inefficient – she’s acting exactly like many people we both grew up with.

    I suppose it lends a more academic veneer than saying – I’d like to control how others live by having people comport with the cultural standards in Oyster Bay.

  3. SarasNavel says:

    I’ve noticed that Alice Dreger is starting to pop up more and more lately, she’s been mentioned in a few parents of trans forums because she almost seems, well, reasonable at first glance. After all, why shouldn’t kids who are gender non-conforming be allowed to be themselves? Some, if not many, of them will turn out gay one way or another, and many do not have body dysphoria at all, nor identity mismatch. Of course, she totally discounts those little subtleties such as the kids who clearly and persistently state their correct sex and gender in defiance of that assigned. Sometimes, Ms. Dreger, the body and intrinsic identity *do* matter and are not simply constructs. But that complicates the fight for sex equality, and a simple fight is more easily fought.

    Here’s one:

    and another here:

    Anyway, I predict she’s the advanced “softening up” in preparation for whatever actually gets released by the Clarke Institute gang in their DSM rework…she’s actually quite dangerous to people with body dysphoria as she’s gained the feminist butch crowd as her vocal supporters in the media posts I’ve seen thus far. I love butches and both they and we have a need to exist and all of us need room (those who must medically transition and those who must not, those who describe as cis, trans or simply ‘fixed’, etc.). However, in Dreger’s born-again 1970’s Second Wave world, there is no medical or biological component to sex and gender other than genitals, chromosomes and reproductive organs. And she’s finding her non-TS audiences, TG, LGB and cis-hetero-mainstream, to be quite receptive out of oppression, phobia or ignorance.

    • ValerieKeefe says:

      TG you say… I’d like to see a transitioning, non-operative woman who has had something good to say about Dreger, actually, make that two, to balance out WBT or some other operative-only blogger who says that I must have a surgical procedure to qualify for basic employment and public accommodation protections.

      • Katrina Rose says:

        Actually, I think it would be interesting to find a T-anything person not named Anne Lawrence or Rosa Lee Klaneski who has anything good to say about well-professed heterosexual Alice Dreger.

      • SarasNavel says:

        Katrina, that there are plenty of scared or just uninformed parents of T* kids that want to hear her message once they’ve had a taste. See, by now most of them know that Zucker is evil and can’t give them what he promises. But this other person, well she’s obviously not trying to harm their kids, just…erase any that might actually *need* to transition with the assumption that there is no biological cause underlying T-anything. She’s a classic 70’s radical second wave feminist who has learned how to repackage her offerings for a new audience.

        Valerie, between those who say that the need to transition is not innate and biological and valid and those who state that it’s only valid if one is able to fully complete all specified surgeries, the seems to be a shrinking space…

      • ValerieKeefe says:

        I will continue to happily occupy that space with my small circle of allies… i.e. the entire country of Uruguay.

      • SarasNavel says:

        Oh Valerie, Uruguay just might be a bit bigger than you think. Besides, it’s the Sicilians that should concern people (“Never go against a…”).

        The way I read the published papers in aggregate, it seems almost every aspect of being T* is it’s own continuum, some with their own clear & distinct biological correlations. That makes for an almost unlimited number of variations & neatly accounts for why there is no single “community”, or even agreement in nomenclature or experience. In turn, that’s also a lot of people who may need very much to transition but may not need that one particular surgery enough to make it their first priority. Or any practical priority, for that matter. I’ve met some people who are completely ambivalent toward that one narrow area of concern but very strongly *need* to realign the rest of their appearance, social identity and gender role to fit what’s inside. That would indicate a fairly large block of allies that normally just want to get on with their lives.

        And then there are the trans kids. See, even the ones that have high body dysphoria and really need to medically transition *right now* can’t until they are old enough. That’s a decade or so of being publicly outed whenever records such as a birth certificate or school records are requested. Want to join a sports team or an after school activity group? Instant outing, as many require a copy of the birth certificate. It’s the supportive parents of those kids that are going to be the underestimated group of allies in that small circle of yours, and they are already making a difference.

        I said that the space between those who give trans people no validity (mental illness) and those who only give the most extreme variation of a single aspect any validity (genitals are job #1) is shrinking. That was referring to the current sudden push from both directions (actually it’s multiple directions, as the 2nd/3rd wave exclusionary feminists, Gay, Inc.-ers and Fundamentalists should be considered different directions and can be used against them). It’s up to everyone else to push back and educate by refuting people like Alice Dreger and the others whenever and wherever they are granted a public forum.

  4. friday jones says:

    If she wants to change minds instead of bodies, why not get things started by changing her OWN mind?

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