So Twelve Was Too Many?

Five weeks and none of the trans-exterminationists or their defenders have the courage to address the realities of trans law.

Not surprising, really.

We all know that bullies in general are cowards.

And Brennan in particular has a long track record of not being able to handle reality-based criticism of what her over-privilege has allowed her to pass off as legal analysis.  As for the kool-aid drinkers, well…

I hope it was yummy.

But, on the off chance that answering twelve questions was just too daunting of a task, lets try just one, shall we?  It has two parts, but its essentially just one question.

Ready?

Here goes…

Should this person have been allowed to volunteer as a rape crisis counselor at rape relief center that only allows women to be rape crisis counselors?  Should this person be allowed to use women’s restrooms?

6 Responses to So Twelve Was Too Many?

  1. How interesting that Her Royal Bugness of Brennan has been found scurrying in the dark in the kitchen, only to seek refuge in a convenient sugar bowl.

    It seemed that Cathy has given the sweet honor of Designated Transsexual Feminist to Dana Lane Taylor and posted on her TS/IS liberation site (along with UN letter-partner Hungerford) , a non-explanation of position, FAQ- UN Submission.

    Well, KatYou woulda thought that the Brennanbugger would have been chomping at the bit to sink her teeth in to those 12 tasty morsels of legal cases that you posed as questions, since you had offered them a mano-a-mano, lawyer to lawyer basis

    1.
    Teresa Ellen Reeves
    Teresa Reeves said: On August 30, 2011

    Questions for Cathy Brennan

    1 You have been quoted as saying that you accept transsexual (or transgender) women as women. Do you understand that there is a meaningful difference between transsexual and transgender and why transsexual women object to being labeled as transgender? And are you aware that many assume that all transgender-identified women are wanting to keep their male genitalia?

    2 A large diverse group of people labeled “transgender” was invited into LGBT beginning in the mid 1990s. This diverse group of people included mostly male-bodied gender variants who were once known as drag queens and transvestites.

    Are you aware that most female transsexuals did not feel included in LGBT? Heterosexual transsexual women were not interested in gay men and lesbian transsexuals were not being welcomed by lesbians- who in effect had difficulty telling them apart from the male-bodied gender variants.

    Do you support the inclusion of transsexual women in LGBT and the inclusion of those who identify as lesbians by the lesbian community? And what of the inclusion of transgender women?

    3 In a past comments to me, you’ve expressed the need for safe women-born-women spaces and their exclusion of transsexual women. I was recruited to be a counselor intern by lesbians to serve mostly lesbian clients for 900 hours in 2 1/2 years and I was even invited to co-facilitate a group of lesbian incest survivors and I did so for 1 1/2 years. But I was to be outed, threatened with violence by 4 women, ejected from the Womanspace I had co-foundeed and purged from my job in a wave trhat cost scores of transsexual women their jobs in the late 1980s.

    Legal policies in the UK have excluded transsexual women victims of sexual assault from being part of a women victims group and policies in Canada and the UK bans transsexuals from being counselors to rape victims in rape trauma or relief centers.

    Since I have had the extensive and valuable training and experience as a counselor working with victims of incest and there has been the tragedy of incest, child molestation, rape, and rape & murder in my family history, and I myself was the victim of an attempted rape–

    Do you think that it is fair to ban me from engaging in the counseling of women victims?
    Particularly since my transition ended some 34 years ago and I constitute no threat to anyone’s safety and the worst fear I could generate is of an imagination of a phantom that no longer exists.

    4 Just how welcome have you made transsexual women in your community and how many of them have you ever known in any lesbian-focused organization that you have been involved in?

    5 Do you have any transsexual women as your real friends?

    5 In your experience, do lesbian groups say that they welcome transsexual women– but then if one joins their group- do they find subtle ways to shun and exclude them? Do you see them issuing policies like “women-born-women” to unnecessarily keep out all transsexuals all the time?

    Can you name lesbian-focused social groups and organizations where all transsexual women
    are welcome and can you name any leaders in the lesbian community, including yourself who states vocal support for the inclusion of transsexual women in the lesbian community?

    ***************************************************************

    Thank you for your willingness to address questions and I apologize if any or all of the questions are more confrontational than I had intended.

    I have had a 23 1/2 year history since I was encouraged to come out as a lesbian by my lesbian friends and colleagues. The last 23 of those years I have been a lesbian without a country.
    And even 2 years ago I couldn’t find acceptance by a lesbian group here in Seattle.

    Best regards
    Teresa
    Reply

  2. How interesting that Her Royal Bugness of Brennan has been found scurrying in the dark in the kitchen, only to seek refuge in a convenient sugar bowl.

    It seemed that Cathy has given the sweet honor of Designated Transsexual Feminist to Dana Lane Taylor and posted on her TS/IS Liberation site (along with UN letter-partner Hungerford) , a non-explanation of position, “FAQ- UN Submission”.

    Well, Kat,
    You woulda thought that the Brennanbugger would have been chomping at the bit to sink her teeth in to those 12 tasty morsels of legal cases that you posed as questions, since you had offered them on a womana-a-womana, lawyer-to- lawyer basis with both of you speaking the language of legalista.

    But apparently Brennan had taken a vow of silence on the real issues and I had my own questions based upon my actual track record as a transsexual woman with a history of feminism and an ongoing association with women-only and women-focused organizations and more than 900 hours of experience as a counselor working with a lesbian clientele in 1980s.

    I initially took her willingness to latch on to one transsexual feminist as sincere. But then again I remembered encountering her in her sullen aftermath of the EQ Marryland debacle and it’s less than trans-accommodating HB 235– where she had been looking for a dog to kick and finding them to have run away, no longer in Marryland. After the brutal attack on Chrissy Polis, she couldn’t even find a transsexual safe to kick there.

    So she had come to find me. As a “Visitor from a Small-Minded Eastern Planet”, she found that I refused to assume the position of schlemiel. She had friended me on Facebook, but refused to allow me to message her or even access to her profile to read her 770+ posts or know her 1100+ friends.

    All she could do was make a series of hit and run posts where she made annoying and cloying remarks critical of my undercover takedown of a small group supporting the Dyke Klux Klan of Michfest called Mich I Can.

    Yet at one point she conceded that she thought of me as a woman.

    But she never responded to my comments about my history as a counselor working with lesbian incest survivors, the kind of occupation forbidden to transsexual women by the B.C. Rape
    Relief Act and the U.K. Equality Act– or about the history of incest, rape, murder and suicide in my family that led me to become a counselor- to take care of myself and help others in a profession that had failed to support me in my time of need when I was disowned by family and abandoned in agony when my brother’s 12 year old daughter was raped and murdered without my being able to have ever met her as me or not even to be allowed to go to her funeral.

    So on TS/IS Liberation I offered my own non-legalese questions as comments, hoping that a truly feminist- seeking Brennan would respond in kind:

    August 30, 2011

    Teresa Reeves– Questions for Cathy Brennan

    1 You have been quoted as saying that you accept transsexual (or transgender) women as women. Do you understand that there is a meaningful difference between transsexual and transgender and why transsexual women object to being labeled as transgender? And are you aware that many assume that all transgender-identified women are wanting to keep their male genitalia?

    2 A large diverse group of people labeled “transgender” was invited into LGBT beginning in the mid 1990s. This diverse group of people included mostly male-bodied gender variants who were once known as drag queens and transvestites.

    Are you aware that most female transsexuals did not feel included in LGBT? Heterosexual transsexual women were not interested in gay men and lesbian transsexuals were not being welcomed by lesbians- who in effect had difficulty telling them apart from the male-bodied gender variants.

    Do you support the inclusion of transsexual women in LGBT and the inclusion of those who identify as lesbians by the lesbian community? And what of the inclusion of transgender women?

    3 In past comments to me, you’ve expressed the need for safe women-born-women spaces and their exclusion of transsexual women.

    I was recruited to be a counselor intern by lesbians to serve mostly lesbian clients for 900 hours in 2 1/2 years and I was even invited to co-facilitate a group of lesbian incest survivors and I did so for 1 1/2 years. But I was to be outed, threatened with violence by 4 women, ejected from the Womanspace I had co-founded and purged from my job in a wave that cost scores of transsexual women their jobs in the late 1980s.

    Legal policies in the UK have excluded transsexual women victims of sexual assault from being part of a women victims group and policies in Canada and the UK bans transsexuals from being counselors to rape victims in rape trauma or relief centers.

    Since I have had the extensive and valuable training and experience as a counselor working with victims of incest and there has been the tragedy of incest, child molestation, rape, and rape & murder in my family history, and I myself was the victim of an attempted rape–

    Do you think that it is fair to ban me from engaging in the counseling of women victims?

    Particularly since my transition ended some 34 years ago and I constitute no threat to anyone’s safety and the worst fear I could generate is of an imagination of a phantom that no longer exists.

    4 Just how welcome have you made transsexual women in your community and how many of them have you ever known in any lesbian-focused organization that you have been involved in?

    5 Do you have any transsexual women as your real friends?

    6 In your experience, do lesbian groups say that they welcome transsexual women– but then if one joins their group- do they find subtle ways to shun and exclude them? Do you see them issuing policies like “women-born-women” to unnecessarily keep out all transsexuals all the time?

    Can you name lesbian-focused social groups and organizations where all transsexual women are welcome and can you name any leaders in the lesbian community, including yourself who states vocal support for the inclusion of transsexual women in the lesbian community?

    ***************************************************************
    I have had a 23 1/2 year history since I was encouraged to come out as a lesbian by my lesbian friends and colleagues. The last 23 of those years I have been a lesbian without a country.

    And even 2 years ago I couldn’t find acceptance by a lesbian group here in Seattle.
    *******************************************

    I know that I had pressed her on the transsexual vs. transgender issue. There was a brief time in the 1990s- early on in the Michfest controversy when some lesbians were willing to let in post-operative transsexuals only, in part based on a definition of lesbianism as a “female-bodied sexuality” that forbids male genitals.

    Those of us who had changed sex thought that if we passed the inspection they would accept us- only to see them withdraw any prior offer because they feared the massive influx of “male-bodied” women under the new transgender inclusion.

    I cannot accept the lesbian policy that accepts us in the LGBT community while lumping of us all together as “women” under the “transgender umbrella” and then turns around and locks the doors to the Lesbian community by declaring all transsexual and transgender women not to be “womyn-born-womyn”.

    If Lesbians think that all transsexual and transgender women are women, then they must accept all of us into the Lesbian Community. If those who are not “womyn-born-womyn” are not welcome then T inclusion in LGBT is nothing but a lie.

    And if they say that “All women are equal”
    But “Womyn-born-womyn” are more equal,
    Women who used to have male genitalia are less equal &
    Women who still have male genitalia are even less equal–

    Then the Lesbian Community needs to specify that as their true Apartheid exclusion policy and they should to stop preaching equality for all.

    Of course, none of us are surprised that there has been no response from Cathy Brennan.

    But then she probably doesn’t believe that real post-transsexual lesbian feminist like me or Suzan Cooke exists.

    And I don’t believe the transsexual-friendly Cathy Brennan exists, either.

  3. I only pushed the “post comment” button once, but my in- progress comment somehow got posted some two hours beforehand.
    Please delete the first comment because it was not complete or proof-read.

  4. Jessica says:

    Kimberly Nixon’s situation represents a curious clause in Canadian human rights legislation that allows not-for-profit organizations, created to address longstanding discrimination, actually to discriminate in their work. And not just women’s organizations–which is the basis of the Supreme Court’s refusal to hear her case.

    The same group of women recently attempted to exclude transsexual women from its pharmacy, Lu’s, in Vancouver; Lu’s eventually relented, but it went out of business.

    In Canada, human rights precedence is build upon several decisions of the British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal of the late 1990’s, the most important of which is Sheridan v. Sanctuary Investments.Tawni Sheridan, a transsexual to female person under a doctor’s care, was refused access to the women’s washroom in a gay club. The Human Rights Tribunal ruled that any transsexual person from the moment they began a medically supervised transition has the right to access the sex-segregated facility that conforms to their target sex.

    More recent human rights agencies’ practice, such as the Ontario Human Rights Commission, have ruled that people have access to the sex-segregated facilities that conform to their full-time presentation.

    In my own transition, I received, but never needed to use, a carry letter that indicated I was under medical supervised transition–long before surgery.

    The Rape Relief Society, that appealed the Nixon case to the Supreme Court of Canada, is an outlier in terms of their policy towards transsexual women. In the transcript of the original tribunal hearing in Vancouver, when asked which women in the audience would “trigger” her clients, Lee Lakeman, speaking for Rape Relief, pointed to an, apparently, very masculine looking person, a ‘real’ woman. More recent information suggests that the woman who would “trigger” Lakeman’s clients was none other than the lesbian partner of Nixon’s lawyer.

    The Human Rights law clause, a peculiarity of Canadian jurisprudence, is unfortunate, but rather small. Most rape crisis agencies in Canada, interval houses, etc, serve transsexual women–and certainly women of transsexual history.

    • And again that standard makes someone other than the patient the ultimate arbiter of whether they are to be allowed basic human rights…

      Essentially, women, who are gatekept, are not recognized as women… it gets even worse if one insists on an operative status standard.

  5. […] at ENDABlog] KatWebsite – More […]

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